Coming from you, Arthur, you must realize that all of these are just more reasons to be pro-manticore. Swarthmore is evil, it is deceitful, it is associated with the devil, and it (well, not the campus, but maybe the student body?) is generally considered to be horrendously ugly.
My main reason for not wanting the Phoenix is because the University of Chicago has the Phoenix as a mascot. We're already too much alike as schools--we don't need to steal their mascot, too. (Also because I don't like The Phoenix. But that's a personal matter.)
I voted for none of the above. But if I had been forced to choose one, it would have been Manticore, because I am a firm believer that things like this should involve either rhyming or alliteration.
Okay, let's get this straight. A small group of people — largely athletes, right? — wants a mascot. So they quickly organize a petition, which a minority (albeit a large one) signs, to the effect that the school ought to have a mascot. (But wasn't the petition a little misleading?) Now people are voting from a list of options, none of which really seems to have broad support.
What happened to concensus? One gets the sense from the admissions brochures, and from commonly-repeated rhetoric while I was there, that this kind of process would a kind of slow, gradual one, in which everyone had a voice. I mean, I'm perfectly willing to accept that as a cranky alumnus, my voice should be a lot less important than that of a current student, but I still think this process is rushed and idiotic. Do the no-mascot partisans have any recourse at all? (Could they, for example, put together their own survey, to the effect that the process was indeed rushed and democratic, and that all the existing options should be rejected for the time being?)
I mean, there are still a lot of no-mascot partisans on campus, right?
I mean, there are still a lot of no-mascot partisans on campus, right?
It's hard to say. Personally, I'd be happy if Swarthmore had a mascot--not necessarily a guy in a suit, mind you, but at least something that we could call our teams that isn't totally laughable--but I agree with you wholeheartedly that the process has not been very good. It reminds me strikingly of the New Dorm naming process: a committee of questionable authority over the matter solicits suggestions from students and then chooses which ones they want to put on the table for a final decision. Hmm, also very reminiscent of the Psych department's method of choosing its annual t-shirt design, come to think of it...
The "Manticore" is so obviously a ploy. Many congratulations to the students who got it on the ballot, but I really hope it doesn't go through (see above arguments). Gorillas have nothing to do with Swarthmore, and would just be strange. Dolphins are more noted for their intelligence than gorillas are, and they're just as likely to be seen wandering (swimming?) about in the Crum (I like how that proper noun works for both species). Gryphons? Yeah, uh-huh.
I voted for the Phoenices (The Phoenix?), again for the above reasons. It actually has a tie to the college that goes beyond a crappy student band. It ain't perfect, but what is? And besides, I didn't think of the UChicago thing (I know nothing about UChicago).
I also like Arthur's reasoning, about the dramatic burnout every few years.
I'd be perfectly pleased to have no mascot at all, though.
Kill it. Kill it with fire, that we may not have to hear about it for the next ten years. Beyond that is too much to hope for, I suppose, but I'll take it.
<loremaster mode>The mascot issue last came up in 1996. It went down to ignominius defeat, in two rounds of balloting, including one where "no mascot" was a write-in candidate.</loremaster>
Wait, didn't refosolyf say there had been something about this when he was a student? ('99-02) While the same thing was happening at Bryn Mawr? (cf. chat list 2/22/06)
If Swat has to have a mascot, it should be the Swarthmore No Mascot. It would be a guy dressed up as a giant pipe, his face peering out from the bowl, and when he ran onto the field he would carry a long white banner fluttering behind him, reading "Ceci n'est pas un mascot."
I think that embodies the spirit of Swarthmore much better than a manticore.
If *I* were in charge of balloting, the ballot would look more like this:
Are you in favor of Swarthmore getting a mascot? O Yes O No
If Swarthmore gets a new mascot, which of these choices should it be? O Manticore O Phoenix O Gryphon O Gorilla O None of the Above
Or, it could more like this:
O Manticore O Phoenix O Gryphon O Gorilla O None of the Above
[] No mascot
Unlike the current ballet, this would allow the committee to collect full information about people's preferences regarding mascots. With this ballot, you can say "I want a mascot and I want it to be _____", "I want a mascot, but none of these choices", "I don't want a mascot and I don't like these choices", or "I don't want a mascot, but if we're getting one anyway, might as well make it a _____".
You do realize that manticore was only an option because of the student band, right? And that the only reason it was selected was probably because students on the committee are friends with band members? And that years from now, when prospective students hear that story, they'll immediately associate Swarthmore with cliquiness, imposing one's views on others, and pretentiously elevating mediocrity through self-promotion?
Huh. Maybe I should have voted for the Manticore, too.
Gorilla. Okay, it's either going to be the Swarthmore Gorillas, which is rather nonsensical. Or the Swarthmore Garnet Gorillas, for the alliterative effect. If it's the former, it's dumb. If it's the latter, we'd have to have a redish gorilla running around trying to inspire people. Like some sort of Communist Grape Ape.
Griffon. How would you make this a costume? Griffons have both wings and four limbs. He'd either be an armless griffin (lame!), a wingless griffin (LAME!!), or a guy with big floppy nonfunctional wings preventing him from being able to actually do any mascot things. Like dancing around. Or standing up.
Phoenix. Swarthmore Phoenices. 'Nuff said.
Manticore. No. No, no, no, no, no. What would this look like? Some guy in a fursuit with a big scorpion tail popping out of his ass? Manticores are supposed to have human faces. There is probably nothing more degrading to a mascot (but still legal, at least) than having an open-faced suit. You see all the sweat and fatigue, which spoils a lot of the effect, and some folks who do mascots really don't want to be readily recognized as such. Or should he wear a plastic Richard Nixon mask instead?
I really like Guilt! He could slouch over to the other team's bleachers and fall down, defeated, making them feel guilty and uncomfortable about playing Swarthmore ever again.
From what I've heard, alums will get a chance to vote soonish? I'm not sure when, or how it will affect things, but I can't imagine they wouldn't let you vote.
Am I the only person that thought the Griffin was the best option?
Granted, I rather like that we don't have a mascot, since it gives the entire campus something to gleefully complain about, but I kinda like griffins--they represent truth and loyalty, and besides, they come with beaks, wings, AND claws.
To the Manticore and the Gorilla, I say a very firm NO.
Tsk. Plenty of teams do fine without a mascot. But if any of the ideas were more...un-mascotish, I might actually consider them, because I'm contrary like that.
I have to say I don't really understand all of the anti-mascot moaning and groaning... I'm not an athlete, nor have I ever attended a Swat sporting event or been accused of having anything remotely resembling school spirit, but what harm could a mascot do? The people who want it seem to really care about it, and I guess I'm confused as to how a mascot could actually be detrimental to anyone. (I'm completely willing to be enlightened, though, if someone wants to explain their anti-mascot argument.) It seems like a mascot would be a really easy thing to ignore, or to be ambivalent about.
I voted for the Phoenix, mainly because I feel like it captures the Swarthmore experience of burning up and coming back to life many times over (like arctangent said), but also because I really want someone to dress up as the Phoenix sandwich... Griffins also seemed like a nice choice.
Most of what I've heard is that people think the very idea of having a mascot is un-Swat-like, somehow, that the fact that we don't have a mascot is a consequence of the fact that we lack school spirit and, well, yes, we do lack school spirit, so we should be proud of that and be proud of having no mascot.
Personally, I'm sort of ambivalent about the whole thing. I wouldn't particularly mind having a mascot (you're right, it wouldn't do any harm), I just don't think the process was planned very well this time around and I strongly dislike all of the choices we were presented with, and I would have liked something a little more un-mascotish (like the Trees, or the Worms) just to show that we're still Swarthmore, after all.
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philthecow) wrote in ![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/community.gif?v=92.2){kind=small}
swarthmore,
April 18 2006, 00:47:30 UTC 6 years ago
Also, they look horrendously ugly.
Phoenix all the way.
April 18 2006, 00:52:56 UTC 6 years ago
My main reason for not wanting the Phoenix is because the University of Chicago has the Phoenix as a mascot. We're already too much alike as schools--we don't need to steal their mascot, too. (Also because I don't like The Phoenix. But that's a personal matter.)
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April 18 2006, 00:49:43 UTC 6 years ago
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April 18 2006, 01:08:41 UTC 6 years ago
What happened to concensus? One gets the sense from the admissions brochures, and from commonly-repeated rhetoric while I was there, that this kind of process would a kind of slow, gradual one, in which everyone had a voice. I mean, I'm perfectly willing to accept that as a cranky alumnus, my voice should be a lot less important than that of a current student, but I still think this process is rushed and idiotic. Do the no-mascot partisans have any recourse at all? (Could they, for example, put together their own survey, to the effect that the process was indeed rushed and democratic, and that all the existing options should be rejected for the time being?)
I mean, there are still a lot of no-mascot partisans on campus, right?
April 18 2006, 01:27:04 UTC 6 years ago
It's hard to say. Personally, I'd be happy if Swarthmore had a mascot--not necessarily a guy in a suit, mind you, but at least something that we could call our teams that isn't totally laughable--but I agree with you wholeheartedly that the process has not been very good. It reminds me strikingly of the New Dorm naming process: a committee of questionable authority over the matter solicits suggestions from students and then chooses which ones they want to put on the table for a final decision. Hmm, also very reminiscent of the Psych department's method of choosing its annual t-shirt design, come to think of it...
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April 18 2006, 01:32:25 UTC 6 years ago
I voted for the Phoenices (The Phoenix?), again for the above reasons. It actually has a tie to the college that goes beyond a crappy student band. It ain't perfect, but what is? And besides, I didn't think of the UChicago thing (I know nothing about UChicago).
I also like Arthur's reasoning, about the dramatic burnout every few years.
I'd be perfectly pleased to have no mascot at all, though.
April 18 2006, 01:36:05 UTC 6 years ago
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April 18 2006, 01:48:28 UTC 6 years ago
Discuss
Kill it. Kill it with fire, that we may not have to hear about it for the next ten years. Beyond that is too much to hope for, I suppose, but I'll take it.
<loremaster mode>The mascot issue last came up in 1996. It went down to ignominius defeat, in two rounds of balloting, including one where "no mascot" was a write-in candidate.</loremaster>
April 18 2006, 02:06:59 UTC 6 years ago
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April 18 2006, 02:10:41 UTC 6 years ago
I think that embodies the spirit of Swarthmore much better than a manticore.
April 18 2006, 02:15:10 UTC 6 years ago
April 18 2006, 02:13:21 UTC 6 years ago
Are you in favor of Swarthmore getting a mascot?
O Yes
O No
If Swarthmore gets a new mascot, which of these choices should it be?
O Manticore
O Phoenix
O Gryphon
O Gorilla
O None of the Above
Or, it could more like this:
O Manticore
O Phoenix
O Gryphon
O Gorilla
O None of the Above
[] No mascot
Unlike the current ballet, this would allow the committee to collect full information about people's preferences regarding mascots. With this ballot, you can say "I want a mascot and I want it to be _____", "I want a mascot, but none of these choices", "I don't want a mascot and I don't like these choices", or "I don't want a mascot, but if we're getting one anyway, might as well make it a _____".
April 18 2006, 02:37:26 UTC 6 years ago
April 18 2006, 02:16:45 UTC 6 years ago
April 18 2006, 02:19:35 UTC 6 years ago
"Swarthmore Griffin" just sounds like a member of the family on Family Guy.
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April 18 2006, 02:28:22 UTC 6 years ago
Huh. Maybe I should have voted for the Manticore, too.
April 18 2006, 03:16:13 UTC 6 years ago
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April 18 2006, 03:05:33 UTC 6 years ago
Think about how dumb these would all look...
Gorilla.Okay, it's either going to be the Swarthmore Gorillas, which is rather nonsensical. Or the Swarthmore Garnet Gorillas, for the alliterative effect. If it's the former, it's dumb. If it's the latter, we'd have to have a redish gorilla running around trying to inspire people. Like some sort of Communist Grape Ape.
Griffon.
How would you make this a costume? Griffons have both wings and four limbs. He'd either be an armless griffin (lame!), a wingless griffin (LAME!!), or a guy with big floppy nonfunctional wings preventing him from being able to actually do any mascot things. Like dancing around. Or standing up.
Phoenix.
Swarthmore Phoenices. 'Nuff said.
Manticore.
No. No, no, no, no, no. What would this look like? Some guy in a fursuit with a big scorpion tail popping out of his ass? Manticores are supposed to have human faces. There is probably nothing more degrading to a mascot (but still legal, at least) than having an open-faced suit. You see all the sweat and fatigue, which spoils a lot of the effect, and some folks who do mascots really don't want to be readily recognized as such. Or should he wear a plastic Richard Nixon mask instead?
April 18 2006, 03:51:31 UTC 6 years ago
Re: Think about how dumb these would all look...
Almost everyone pluralizes it "Phoenixes", including members of the Phoenix staff.Though we could just be the Swarthmore Phoenix, singular.
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April 18 2006, 03:49:05 UTC 6 years ago
Then there's always the Goggles.
How about the Swarthmore Soviets?
--
Please, please let no mascot win. If only alumni could vote..
April 18 2006, 04:03:23 UTC 6 years ago
From what I've heard, alums will get a chance to vote soonish? I'm not sure when, or how it will affect things, but I can't imagine they wouldn't let you vote.
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April 18 2006, 03:49:52 UTC 6 years ago
Granted, I rather like that we don't have a mascot, since it gives the entire campus something to gleefully complain about, but I kinda like griffins--they represent truth and loyalty, and besides, they come with beaks, wings, AND claws.
To the Manticore and the Gorilla, I say a very firm NO.
April 18 2006, 03:53:56 UTC 6 years ago
Not to mention the Philadelphia Museum of Art.
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Anonymous
April 18 2006, 03:52:27 UTC 6 years ago
Anonymous
April 19 2006, 02:38:50 UTC 6 years ago
I voted for the Phoenix, mainly because I feel like it captures the Swarthmore experience of burning up and coming back to life many times over (like arctangent said), but also because I really want someone to dress up as the Phoenix sandwich... Griffins also seemed like a nice choice.
April 19 2006, 03:32:02 UTC 6 years ago
Personally, I'm sort of ambivalent about the whole thing. I wouldn't particularly mind having a mascot (you're right, it wouldn't do any harm), I just don't think the process was planned very well this time around and I strongly dislike all of the choices we were presented with, and I would have liked something a little more un-mascotish (like the Trees, or the Worms) just to show that we're still Swarthmore, after all.
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